Doula Business Resources From The Educated Birth

In your doula business it’s vital to take a step back and reflect on the year—what went well, what didn’t, and where there’s room to grow in your doula business. If you’re ready to get focused, intentional, and strategic for the new year, I’ve got just the thing for you: a two-hour, interactive workshop where we’ll do this exact process together. Let’s set the stage for your strongest year yet! 

https://harroddoulaservices.thrivecart.com/level-up-your-doula-biz-2024-pod/

Representation and equity in birthwork, in childbirth education, in lactation, in midwifery, in obstetrics and in nursing, along with all sorts of other fields is part of how we start to change the tide of Maternal Mortality in our country. Cheyenne Varner is our guest today and is doing just that with her beautiful company and foundation The Educated Birth.

Meet Cheyenne Varner:

Cheyenne Varner is a nationally recognized certified birth worker, health equity advocate, and illustrator, as well as the founder of The Educated Birth and Everyday Birth Magazine. Her work centers on advancing reproductive health equity through the creation of inclusive educational tools and the amplification of underrepresented stories via compelling visuals and storytelling. The Educated Birth is an Official Perinatal Safe Spot with global reach, supporting birth professionals and families across the U.S. and beyond.

CONNECT with Cheyenne on Instagram or donate:

https://www.theeducatedbirth.com/foundation

https://www.instagram.com/theeducatedbirth

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https://www.tiktok.com/@doulacoach

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Doula Tips and Tits is produced by Kaely Harrod of Harrod Doula Services

It is sponsored by The Doula Biz Blueprint Self-Paced Class for Doulas Launching Successful and Sustainable Businesses! 

Music by Madirfan: Hidden Place on Pixabay

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Transcript

0:34

Welcome to Dula Tips and Tits, the podcast where we cut through the noise and get real about what it takes to build a sustainable doula business. I'm Kaylee Harrod. I've been a doula informally for 14 years and full time for seven. Around here, we don't sugarcoat stuff. We talk autonomy, owning your worth, creating a business that works for you. No fluff, no burnout, just the honest truth on how to be your own best boss. Let's get into today's episode. Hello and welcome back to Dula Tips and Tits. We are joined today by another beautiful guest, Cheyenne, who is a founder of the Educated Birth and the Everyday Birth magazine and also a certified birth worker, health equity advocate, and an illustrator. And Cheyenne, I'm so excited to have you here. I can't remember. Have you been on the podcast before or no? This is my first time live together many years ago, right? Have we done two lives? That's what it was. I was like, why is this your first, is your debut on the Dula Tips and Tits podcast? So Cheyenne, I would love for you to share a little bit about who you are with the audience. So they have a better sense of kind of where you're coming from. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. So my name is Cheyenne. I live in Richmond, Virginia. I am a mom of two girls, ages two and six months. I have a bonus son who's amazing and husband. And I've been a birth worker since 2016. I actually have a background in the nonprofit realm, graphic design, communications, things like that. But I became a birth worker in 2016 when I learned. about the maternal mortality crisis in the US and particularly how it was impacting black women in the US did a very hard shift and then became very soon after that engaged in creating educational content which I'm sure we'll talk more about, right? So, but that's just kind of my spiel about how I came into the work and what I do. Yeah, I love that. I was thinking the other day about how we were gonna chat and that when I first found out about your company you didn't have any babies. And it was something that you, at some point you were talking about, I don't remember if you were single or just that you weren't a mom, but it was along the lines of like, you don't have to be a parent to be an advocate in birth work, you know? Yeah. To like get to like watch you become a parent has also been really cool. So yeah, it's actually like a really I feel like the narrative for me is really neat in that, so I'm the oldest of four in my family, and we're all very spread out. I was kind of an accident. My grandparents were still very young. But, you know, my siblings, there's like about seven, eight years between each of us. So I was very aware and engaged during each of my mom's pregnancies. And then I was in college when my youngest sister came into our family through foster care and then adoption. And so I got to watch my mom also experience a postpartum without a pregnancy while I was an adult, and I could really process a lot of things around that. And so even from the earlier, even when I was like seven, eight with my first sibling, my first sister, I was super curious and super engaged about what was going on with my mom during pregnancy. And I read the baby books and I, you know, like a lot of kids modeled it through play and things like that. And in my teenage years, I really seriously considered that I would want to go into medicine in order to go into obstetrics. And I didn't know that's what it was called then, but that's what I would have been going towards. And then in college, I really kind of realized that the medical element was not something that I was called to. So that's why in 2016, when I learned about, you know, what was going on, maternal mortality wise, and the impact of this non-medical group of people, doulas, coming alongside families, that's when I was like, oh my gosh, this thing that has been inside of me all these years, this desire to like engage with people in this, there is a space where I can do that non-medically. And that, you know, is what just catapulted me, you know, right into the space. And it's kind of, I don't know, a happy accident in a way that I was able to for such a long time really just lean into the arts and the education and the kind of advocacy elements of my interests and then be able to as I became a birth worker just pull that in you know and end up creating this space that didn't exist before a space where we could actually do the educational piece of this work in a way touches on the gaps that we're seeing in the outcomes. Yeah yeah well and when I first stumbled across your stuff I feel like it was in one of the local Facebook groups but I don't for certain and one of the things I was working on was it was early pandemic days and I was working on creating a self-paced, childbirth class. And I had been teaching childbirth for a while at that point. And I had been teaching from like, you know, generic curriculums, because I was teaching for other companies, I wasn't teaching for myself, you know, and I was like, sure, I could buy plum tree baby or whatever, you know, like, I could buy one of those. But at the time, especially, and they've, they've improved some in this, but it was like, all thin, white, pregnant folks, right. And part of my issue with it was my family is multi ethnic. And I'm like, we are also not shown here. But then like, I have a sibling who's non binary, who's in partnership with the trans man, like, that they're not shown here, right. And I'm like, this does not show my people, my clients, it does talk in the way that I want to talk. Like, I don't want to use mom and dad language, right? Because I have clients that are single by choice. I have clients that don't identify as mom and dad, you know, part of it was, I was sort of like, if I'm going to take the time, which was a lot of time, to build this class, I want to have illustrations and images that match how I actually want this to be, you know, and there wasn't just like, you can buy this curriculum that was not that was a good option, at least at the time, right. And so I started by like, I think I bought like two or three of your illustrations, and was like, I'm going to do everything I can with this little pack of things, and eventually was able to add to that stuff. But but part of what drew me in was the fact that that I wanted to support you as a business person. And also, and that you were like an actual birth worker making these things like not just like a random illustration, like, yeah, an automated sort of illustration. Like, yeah. Yeah. And I think the intentionality of inclusion, right? Like I, right away was like, okay, there are so many categories in these illustrations that I would not have even considered body size, body types, makeup of couples, you know, people with like amputees, like so many different layers that are completely unrepresented. And in my mind, people who fall in those categories benefit so much from learning with images like them. People who aren't in those categories need to be normalized that the fact that they are not the only people around and they need to see people that don't look like them. And so there's like both sides in my mind are needing these diverse illustrations. It's not just for the folks that aren't currently being included in the illustrations that we have and things, you know. So that's where I first learned about you. And at that point, you were primarily doing illustrations and handouts, right? Like, what are they, the packs, the postpartum packs? What did you call, what do you call them? I forget. Well, right now we call them like our toolkits, but yeah. So we we've had like, you know, I think when we started, it was just like, here's, you know, infographics on this topic, on this topic. Five things to know. Yeah, and it was actually a elder, black midwife, Claudia Booker, who came to me and was like, you need to organize this into like, it's like, break it down, five things to know about, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like that's what, that's what engages people. That's what parents are gonna like. But you know, it's funny, like, you know, when I think about the trajectory at the beginning, it was really just like, hey, I'm like a new birth worker. I'm a black woman. My family is super multiple complexions, hair textures, like at Thanksgiving, like you see everybody, like all this variety. So that's what I knew, right? Like a lot of us. And so I wanted it to be reflected in just like you were saying about what you wanted to see reflected. And yeah, the sort of status quo of what was available was not fitting that as well as, you know, as I've continued on, even getting into like how the language approaches different choices people might make or their access to different options and things like that, it like goes deeper. But at that level, like when I started, it really was just like, I want to see images that I feel like would resonate with me, would resonate with my aunt, with my friend, you know, with people that I'm going into community with. And then people really did teach me as I put it out there and like showed people, other people were like, A, like it's not just something you can't find. It's something that just hasn't been made. And B, like there's so much more out here. Can you make stuff that leads to more of us? And, you know, that moved me so much to have people reaching out and saying, you know, we're not represented as well. So then it became really like an entire learning process. I mean, there was a period where, you know, our materials started out very binary in language. And there was a point at which, you know, people hadn't reached out and I was like, we're going to fix this, you know? And so we went back and we just rewrote, you know? And we shifted it. And even with like, you know, disability and things that are visible disabilities that you can illustrate, like, putting that stuff in and as soon as we put it out, pretty much every intersection that our materials have visibly shown, we've had someone reach out at some point and express how much it meant to them to see that and to be represented in that way. So we totally, totally know the impact. Yeah. I mean, I think the impact is massive in how I've seen, like, I think, I don't know. I think there's a lesson here also in listening to the things that you don't know yet, right? And I remember at some point you would put out like, you know, what kinds of infographics do people need? Like what kinds of information? You know, I'm working on more illustrations. What do people need? And every time I saw something like that, I'm like, there are like dozens of people on here. Like, I need this, I need this. Can you do like lactation? Can you do how the milk flows? Can you do, you know, I'm like C-section information please. And thank you, you know. I'm sure, I mean, part of that is like, they're just like, I mean, all of us were like, there is such a gap here that actually we need information about literally everything. Like, can you please do this on a broader scale? I'm like, don't stop. And I, at some point was like, I wonder how Shan ever rests. Like, what does that look like? Something is always something you could be working on. Yeah, no, there really is, you know, and that brings up a good point too, which I think I was kind of leaning towards earlier. Like, as we were going through and creating all these things, because there is such a wide, you know, a right, like we've really only touched the surface still. We've been doing this for like eight years. And, you know, we have our pregnancy toolkit covering stuff about pregnancy. We have, you know, our labor and birth toolkit really digging into intervention. comfort measures, things that come up when you're preparing for the actual birth, immediate postpartum stuff, and then we have our postpartum toolkit. And I would say, you know, it felt maybe the most amplified to me, or obvious to me when we were working on postpartum stuff, how, how many holes there can be in the educational space related to that, like, even as a, a, you know, birth worker who'd been working for fit with families for years at that point when I'm creating this postpartum toolkit. I'm talking about, you know, flange size and, you know, different things having to do with pumping and hand expression and things that you may not get in your original training as a birth worker, and that depending on what's going on with the families that you're serving may not come up with every client. So there were lots of spaces, even like I think about the back. You know, there's so many spaces where we have even greater opportunity to go deeper in our materials. I'm proud of, you know, what we have covered I mean c section in general was like a big thing for us to figure out how to, you know, again, like, cover these things in a way that is very objective and fair to the vast variety of ways that people may approach that topic, as well as like, whether that comes an outcome for them or not. And then what they need as a result. Does that make sense? Like, yeah, even like when it comes down to like little nitty gritty language things like for example when we talk about c section sometimes our materials say c section sometimes cesarean sometimes abdominal birth like we swing between different phrases and things like that because we're so aware of how different people might have different connotations and sensitivities toward, you know, the language and things like that so it's really interesting when you really like get into this, not just educator but like actual content writer organizer structuring like hat. You see all the little fine details in a way that I think ultimately is really healthy and beneficial for anyone talking with parents about these things. Yeah, well and a phrase I say all the time in my childbirth classes is there's like endless stuff we could learn, right, like there's, and that's part of it is there's always something else that we could add in, you know, And I think about C-section stuff like the, some of the glaring myths that are like things like you had an unplanned C-section and we call that an emergency. So many people call their unplanned C-sections emergencies. And I think there's like sometimes a benefit in knowing that that was not an emergency, whether that means you were gaslit or whether that means you misunderstand the situation, you know. But, but I think it is definitely beneficial for people who have not yet given birth to know that most unplanned C-sections are not in fact an emergency without like really digging into like, yes, there are some that are. And we're not saying that if your friend says they had an emergency, it wasn't, you know what I mean? They're like, I had a, I had a student once who was like, what are all the possible reasons a C-section could be called? And I was like, oh no, we're not doing that. It's like, for many reasons, that's a terrible idea. But also, it's not possible to tell you, I don't know all the things, and maybe there are some things that I have never happened that could happen that would cause that. There is such a variety, because we're talking about two people, or three people, or four people, however many babies there are, right, that are doing this journey, and there's just too much nuance in that to be able to actually include every single little piece of information. Yeah, I can imagine that my brain would work in a way that was way too detailed if I was doing your job, but broke it down way too much. I will say, one thing that I'm also very proud of, we established pretty early on having this peer review process. Have you ever been on our peer review team? Yeah, I was for a little while. Yeah, because I feel like you were one of our steady-repliers. I know, and I think that I was like, wait, did I stop doing that at some point? No, you know what it is, it's that I haven't been able to put my content creating hat back on in the past, because I started having my own babies, so I have a good reason. That's a fair reason. I have a good reason, but I'm really looking forward to doing that again, because I really do, as we're talking about this, it is mine and my team's total intention and plan on paper to get back into creating these mini kits, essentially, about things like VBAC, about things like different areas around fertility, different things around these kind of niche-y topics that come up and really feel like pumping, or I'm trying to think of another good one, even like some, of the specific interventions like induction, where you can have like a little blurb on a page that talks about what an induction is, but you could spend massive time really getting into the need when someone is really considering for themselves, you know, Hey, my provider brought induction up. Now I want to figure out how to think about it. Or I want to know, you know, I might want to be induced if I get to X weeks and like, what should I know about the health implications around electing an induction of what kind, you know, that's a hot topic on our Instagram right now, because we did a post about holidays. Yeah, totally, totally. I was just fine about this the other day, because I was like, Yeah, no, like one of the hospitals in our area fills up like crazy the week before Thanksgiving because they literally induce everyone who hasn't had their baby. And I'm like, I can understand not scheduling an induction on Thanksgiving or on whatever holiday, but you don't need to be induced because your due date is around then. Like that's a completely different scenario and make stuff up. I mean, they will legitimately be like, we found an actual medical reason and I'm like, that is just straight bullshit. Like this is not, yeah. So anyway, we can get, we can get on that soapbox, but we will not today. If you want to be on that soapbox, there's lots more content to cover until like get into, yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think, um, I want to get into, I want to talk a bit about your foundation because I think it's awesome for people to be able to support you. But before we jump over there, um, one thing that I have done now that I hope to continue doing is join your membership option because I have a whole team of doulas and I want them to have access to the resources. How our company works is that most people who sign on with us as birth clients take my childbirth class, my like self-paced class that I created with your illustrations. Right. And so that already has some of the handouts that I had purchased from you that I had the licensing, you know, to use them for multiple things and whatever. Um, and so there is some consistency there. If people are taking that class and then our doulas also have access to those resources. Um, for me, I think it, it was hard for me to financially do that when I was just working by myself and every penny coming in needed to pay bills in my house or my business, right, but having a team, part of it was wanting the continuity across the team of the kind of resources they have access to and the diversity there. So that they're not kind of scrambling to get crappy resources online. Right. Um, and so I would love for you to share a bit about what that looks like. what the membership looks like so that people can know that that's even an option for folks who are working with pregnant families. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, just to kind of give the big picture, we've created these materials and we have kind of like a little foundation of educational content now with our toolkits that really spans information that, you know, birth worker and child birth educators going to cover with clients between pregnancy through, you know, postpartum considerations from, you know, trimester symptom type stuff to like, you know, sleeping spaces and poopy diapers and, you know, all the things, all the topics, right, and interventions and comfort measures and all the stuff. So we have this kind of like foundation, but we also have a lot of other materials even beyond that. And we have things about, you know, patient, provider like accountability forms that help people kind of like provide their feedback to their providers if they want to. We have coloring sheets that are just kind of like fun, different, you know, sort of equitable lens, paper doll shapes, like things that you can give to clients to just like do as an activity. We have, you know, other stuff beyond that too. So we have like, because we have like older infographics and stuff like that. And we have stuff translated into Spanish as well. From our older infographics, and we're working our way through our more recent stuff as well. So we've got like this big library, essentially, of materials that you can share digitally, you know, hundreds of these like one page sheets that you can share with clients, via email or text, like I like to save the PNGs to my phone and then like shoot them off to people as relevant topics come up. But then you can also print them out. And you can our binder and then like walk through it with people, right? Like, it's super, super versatile. So as we, you know, we're creating all of these things, and people were just kind of going to Etsy or going to our score space and like buying the PDFs. You know, people would engage with us and be like, we want everything, but I don't want to spend like $300 right now, right? For the same reason. Yeah, that's what I was doing. I was like, I'll buy this one now, but next month. Yeah. And for us too, as we were looking at, you know, how do we sustain this work and being able to put in, I mean, we put in hours and weeks and months into creating this content and also going back and editing it, you know, talked about the peer review process, but you know, sourcing, making sure our information is accurate, copy everything, like illustrating. I have illustrated everything that is in our library. So that takes time and attention too. So in order to make it sustainable on our end and to make it a little bit more affordable on the other side, we started this membership. And so monthly fee or annual fee, people can use our materials. And if you have a team, we have different sort of tiers of what that can look like. All that fun IP, running a business, licensing stuff comes into play. But yeah, it's our system and it works really well. And we're also, we've also kind of played around with that over the years. So for people who want to have educational materials that they can really feel confident in content wise and how they present in a health equitable way, like we got you on that. But we've also played around over the years and we'll continue to be building on other things that we offer within our membership, access to classes and like workshops that we've done with different people about different topics, and things like that, exclusive content, things like that. So that's kind of the gist of it. Let me know if you feel like I missed anything. I don't think so. I feel like the, I think the, I mean, there's so many layers here, but like the access even just to the information is worth it, right? In my mind, like that's amazing. One of the doulas on my team loves your stuff. And as soon as I emailed, I think it was like within a couple hours of me emailing and saying like, hey, I bought this, we have access to it. She was trying to download things. She's the one that I was emailing you, she doesn't have access. I'm pretty sure it's because she's a little too eager, but here we are. But she was like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited. This is amazing. I'm using this with the client tonight. And it was really exciting for me because I was like, this is a resource that I was able to provide to you that I know I can trust. And you feel so much more confident walking into this prenatal visit with this information and with handouts to give them and things like that. And I didn't do any of that work. Like I didn't have to recreate everything, you know? I mean, that I think is invaluable for birth workers, but also like if you're gonna support a company supporting something that you believe in is super, super valuable in terms of the sustainability piece of this work as well, you know? And I think like everything that you've added, I'm always like, oh, that's an awesome bonus. That's also amazing, that's also great, you know? Where it's like, just one of these things would make this very valuable, you know what I mean? But it is something that... it, that I know we're not even using probably a third of what we could be using in there, you know, um, but having access to it is really, really helpful in the business. So yeah, you know, I think one of the areas that I also see kind of leaning into more in the near future is really walking people through how to use our stuff and like the depth and the breadth and the width of everything. Right. Cause it's like, um, I think it is worth, you know, naming when you, especially when you're starting off in your business, but throughout it, even when you're well-established, being able to have like your stuff that you bring to your, whether it's virtually or in person, um, that presents strongly professionally, clearly, it adds a lot of value to. not only how you're perceived as a professional and your client's confidence and like what you're doing together, but the actual quality of the communication that you have together. And something that I don't think I mentioned, like we are really intentional in the creation of these toolkits. There are pages that are like super informational, like breaking stuff down, but there are also pages that are like very reflection based activities that you can give to your clients to like go deeper. I think, you know, we've all had the experience of teaching like a class or even sitting with like clients and being like, so what do you think about this topic? And then it's just like crickets. Like nobody's saying anything because in the moment, sometimes it's hard to kind of mentally process and then verbally put words and then do that. So we create things that can help kind of usher that process along where you can give your client this like reflective color and page and say, you know, let's take a bathroom break and like get some water, do something, we'll come back and then let's process the thoughts that we have about what we just went over or I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna send you this and I'm gonna check in with you in a couple of days to hear what you're thinking about that. I think a lot of what we do is also that element of helping people, giving people tools that can help them create these really effective structures and processes for getting the most out of their experience with their clients and making sure their clients get the most out of their care. Yeah, well, and even just having the resources kind of put together, there's, I don't remember, it might be your DULA one that talks about the like, the data around DULA benefits that... But that is like in my, um, Oh, do we freeze for a second? You hear me? Oh, I hear you. Okay. Um, the doula, I think it's the benefits of a doula that, that talks through like some of the studies that have been done. And there's like a reference at the bottom, right? At least the version that I, I have for many, many years ago. Um, so one of the things I think about is like a newer doula might know, like, I know delayed cord clamping is beneficial, but what does that mean? And how, where are the studies and who actually said that it's beneficial and why, you know? And so I think it's also really helpful to be like, Hey, this is, this is the information. And if you have a client that's like, I'd like to read that study. This is where that study is. Like, it's not just like, this is what Chan thinks about this, you know, is how I feel about birth, you know, but like, actually like, this is studies show that this is the case, right? Like having your water broken at this point, increases your chance of infection by this much or, you know, having being pregnant and having a low risk pregnancy, it's actually evidence based from the actual American Society of Obstetricians and Gynecologists to not induce you before 42 weeks, like leave a pregnancy undisturbed, is their actual language, you know, but I think that's also really beneficial because doulas often are coming in kind of like, I know this thing is important, but I don't really know why, or I don't really know what source that came from even, and your information allows for them to already have some of that without having to do all that research, which is a lot, you know, so yeah, absolutely. That's a great point. So I want to end with talking about your foundation a bit. So this is a newer thing, right? Do you want to share something about when the foundation was founded? Is that how we say this thing? So it's been in the works for really a couple years, and we just got our 501c3 status, and we're really launching now. But it comes from, you know, I, when we started, throughout our time existing as the educated birth, we've always had an equity mindset. We're creating tools that are pursuing a more equitable system, right? So when people have come to us and, you know, been like, Hey, here's where I'm at, like, how, how can we get access? How can we make something work? Like, we've been long kind of in the business of making things accessible, doing sliding scale stuff, you know, bartering, just gifting things in order to make it work. But as we have grown, and our goals have grown, and our desire to create more, as we're trying to sort of build, what's our sustainable model? We were like, we need to do this. Like we need to make, create our own foundation and start making it possible for people who value what we're doing, who believe in the mission and who have the capacity to be sustaining a part of that. We need to make that route available. And so now we have that and so people can join us through donations, through different kinds of partnerships, even with Everyday Birth magazine, that really help us to be able to make all of our materials more accessible and to help us grow in really strategic ways like building upon our translations. Like I said, we've started translating into Spanish, but we really want to, and we have the capacity to translate into French and know, Portuguese and some of the other, those are like two big languages that people reach out to us about all the time. And to also like create scholarships for student midwives and, you know, birth workers that are working grassroots on the ground, you know, different BIPOC led groups and nonprofits that want to use our tools and, you know, want it to fit their budgets, like people can come in and make that more possible. And as I talk about it, I'm like, oh, we also have a directory. And I haven't even talked about the magazine. Things that we won't talk about in this talk that we still also do that people, you know, engaging with us can really help us get there. Yeah, just kind of rock it out. So we will be doing stuff around Giving Tuesday and really formalizing what giving can go towards and what kind of impact I can have. So we just really encourage people to definitely look out for that, but also reach out to us at any point and check out our foundation page. Yeah. I mean, I would say as a business, it's beneficial for you to invest in yourself in growth, right? So if you're, if you're investing in educational materials and things like that, the everyday birth magazine is beautiful, like so beautiful on top of being like just full of amazing content, but mostly I love it because it comes wrapped in my favorite color teal because that's the most impactful thing. I love that. It makes me ridiculously happy every time it arrives. I'm like, oh, that's right. They use my favorite color. Bye. But also I think as your business grows, having ways to do charitable giving is a big piece of that. And doing that in a way that sustains this work is huge. Like so many doulas talk to me about like, okay, I'm increasing my prices to sustain my work and my family, but then what does that mean for folks that can't afford and how do I make that equitable? This is one of those ways, right? If you and your body cannot show up for more births or cannot show up for more families in the postpartum time, add to funds that can provide those services. And this is how you do that, even if it's in small amounts. It's also a way to do it if you only have a little bit to give to that, but you want to be able to support an entire community having that resource, right? Then that's how we do that together is by providing those smaller pieces and putting them all together to equal the bigger amount that we need, you know. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And, you know, we're meeting today on November 13. So I'm aware of the context right now. Yes. Of what we're going, what we're kind of looking at as a country. And we'll say, you know, as I have reflected on this most recent election cycle, you know, pre-election and post-election, it's dug in for me just how much, what I've already taught many, many times, right? That we're really not navigating a broken system. We're navigating a very intentionally designed system. And we live in a country that has very specific stories that resonate with many people with their fears, with their sense of pride, with what they value, what they feel like is in their self-interest. And so we really need to be very intentional. We need to be very intentional and strategic about creating real collective impact plans and, you know, figuring out what it looks like for us. And I know that for everyone, you know, A, I'm not coming on here saying like everybody needs to like give to the educated birth in order to, you know, figure out what their, that's their like justice thing that they're, that they're doing. That's not what I'm saying, but I am encouraging people to really be critical thinkers about how am I, you know, if I feel strongly about there being gaps in this. especially this like health equity, reproductive justice space, there being gaps here and I don't like what I see the outcomes being and I want to be a part of something that is change. How can I do something tangible and actionable locally and beyond that can contribute toward that outcome? And there are, I think, things that are, have been like normalized as kind of like the go-to, like donating services to often black and brown folks, which is not always the best, most effective way to really engage in that. Especially if you yourself are not a black or brown folk. Yes. There's lots of players there. Yes, not blanket saying no to that, but saying that we need to be more creative and more strategic as an overall community than just that being one of the primary things that happens all the time. And so whether that's financial giving, whether it's giving expertise, time, skills, especially to people who are from within marginalized groups, who are on the ground doing work to combat the things that are happening to our communities, I do deeply encourage people to do more than take a class and learn about it, figure out what your stuff is. And then it doesn't have to be the same all the time either. Yeah, totally. I know that's a whole other conversation, but I just wanted to say that. I know, I'm like, and then our part two of this will be political problems of the equity that we currently think we're doing in birth work. But I digress. Yeah, I mean, I think part of every doula's work in my mind is to understand the systems that are currently at play and how they are very intentional. They're not accidentally causing harm. They were set up to cause harm. And if you are white and fall within the demographic that the system was made for, then you sometimes are blissfully unaware of those nuances. And I think a first step is always that you need to be educated, especially if you're going to ever be supporting anybody who is not a white couple, especially not a white heterosexual couple. But also, be intentional. about where your funds are going and be intentional about where your efforts are because it is not sustainable in this space to have a one man savior show, right? That is not helpful. It's not sustainable. It is not causing any kind of ripple effect in the healthcare system to be doing just that, like sacrificing your own body for the sake of your white guilt, for instance, just as one example. But also, I think it is important to do something. We also can't be frozen in nothingness, especially in light of the implications on pregnant folks of having this current President-elect coming back. They're there are implications that are going to trickle down into the labor space. And I think it will be faster than we think. That's already there, right? From all of the abortion bans and things like that, the, the limited access to medication that people need to keep them safe. And so birth workers, I think have got to figure out on a very fast level, like where they're going to plug in for this. You don't have to plug into everything, but plug into something that is actually doing the work that we need to have done, especially if you don't have the capacity or knowledge to do, to kind of add in your actual, your actual expertise here, right? Then plug in financially so that other people's expertise can be the, what's weighing into this because those folks need to be funded so they can eat and also advocate, right? Like we turns out that we all have bills to pay and this freaking country is expensive and not getting any cheaper. So yeah, anyway, this is all right. That's going to be our second conversation on this lovely podcast. Yeah, no, I'm excited. I definitely want to come back and talk more. Yeah. The everyday birth magazine is also something that you could think about advertising in. So that's something that I have done as a business and has been, I've seen an amazing return on it. And so all of the information to get in touch with Shan is in the show notes. And I really encourage you at the very least check out what they're doing, follow them on social media, but definitely look at like what makes sense to plug in, in your business, if it's advertisements, if it's membership, if it's donations, like how can you be a part of the awesome stuff that they're doing because the stuff that they're doing is awesome. And so I really encourage you to go and check it all out. Shan, thank you so much for spending a little bit of your afternoon with me. I always love hanging out with you virtually and maybe someday in person. Yeah, I know. We're not too far away from each other. I know. We could meet in the middle for coffee. No, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure. Thank you for, you know, holding space for my very ADHD brain. Oh, you're fine. You're totally fine. It's ADHD plus postpartum life is quite the love, right? Yeah. Yeah. Self employment. Yeah. The things they don't tell you. Listeners, thank you so much for being along for this ride. As always, we will have a solo episode on Friday and then another guest next Wednesday. And if you ever have any questions for us or guests that you would like to suggest that come on the show, please connect with us on Instagram. We will see you in the next episode. Thanks for joining us for this episode of the doula tips and tits podcast. If you learned something today or had an aha moment, we'd love for you to share that on Instagram and tag us at hara doula so we can celebrate alongside you. If you found this podcast helpful, we would so appreciate you taking a second to leave a rating and a review on your favorite podcast app that helps other doulas find us as we do this work together. This podcast is intended as educational and entertainment. It is not medical advice or business advice. Please consult your own medical or legal team for your own needs around your health and your business. We'll see you again soon.